When you speak to Thirza Schaap, one thing immediately stands out: for her, customer experience is not just a field, but a way of looking at the world. A way of working, thinking and organizing. In our latest episode of The Pegamento Podcast she talks candidly about what good customer experience requires and why it is not yet self-evident in many organizations.
Thirza is co-founder of CX Unraveled, an agency that helps organizations truly understand and structurally improve customer experience. Last year she was named #1 CX Professional worldwide, but despite that title, her tone remains down-to-earth, warm and human.
“Customer experience is actually very simple: it’s what a customer experiences versus what they expect.”
That simplicity is exactly where it often goes wrong.
How CX Unraveled began: from KLM to international impact
The foundation of her passion was laid at KLM, where Thirza, together with her associate Peter, was responsible for setting up the Customer Experience department. There they saw up close how big the difference is between how a company thinks a customer journey is and how a customer actually experiences it.
It was also where they discovered how important human connection is, even in large organizations with global processes.
“As a customer, you often have to deal with different departments, systems and employees. As a company, you don’t always see that. You do your best within your piece. But the customer experiences it as one whole.”
The realization that there is SO much room for improvement prompted CX Unraveled.
Where it goes wrong: when the customer is primarily a process
During the talk, Thirza gives an example that many will recognize.
A friend calls her phone provider because her bill is double. She gets neither a clear explanation nor a solution. When she indicates that she is otherwise considering switching, she is told:
“That’s OK, we’re not here to keep customers.”
It’s the kind of sentence you don’t easily forget.
Not because of the content, but because of the underlying culture.
Is this unwillingness? Poor policy? Or an employee who lacks the space and confidence to do what is needed?
Probably the latter.
And that is exactly where Thirza believes the key lies: customer experience can only improve if employees are given the space to act humanely. That starts with trust. And with listening.
And where things do go well? Crisp and the power of simplicity
On the other hand, Thirza cites Crisp as an example of an organization where the customer journey is right. Why?
- They are approachable
- They respond quickly
- They trust the customer
- They solve problems simply and obligingly
No stacked scripts, procedures and proof requirements. Just, “We understand you, we’ll fix it.”
Actually quite normal, but surprisingly unique in practice.
Customer Experience = Employee Experience
Thirza emphasizes it over and over again:
“You can’t deliver a good customer experience without taking good care of your employees.”
Staff involved:
- Enjoy their work
- feel confidence
- take ownership
- and make a difference in the contact moment that matters
And that is exactly the moment customers remember.
AI in customer experience: tool, not a replacement
Yes, AI is playing an increasing role in analyzing customer feedback, building prototypes or improving digital service. But according to Thirza, there is one thing that AI can never take over:
The human touch at times when it matters.
AI can make processes smarter.
But empathy, nuance and recognition remain human work.
“Precisely because self-service is getting better, calls now come in mostly about situations that are really sensitive or impactful. Then the human contact has to be right.”
How do you start as an organization? Grandiose? Visionary? Strategic?
No.
Thirza says:
“Start small. Engage with five clients. Half an hour per customer. Listen. Ask questions. That often provides more insight than thick reports.”
And perhaps that is her most important message.
Customer experience doesn’t start with dashboards, journey maps or new tooling.
It starts with genuine curiosity about what the customer is really experiencing.
A conversation that inspires and remains practical
The episode is full of recognizable stories, clear examples and directly applicable insights. Thirza talks candidly about working with large and small organizations, about what can go wrong and most importantly: what is fun and meaningful about improving the customer experience.
It is a conversation that:
- inspires
- RELATED
- gives concrete tools
- AND invites you to do something small differently tomorrow
Listen to the episode
You can listen to the Pegamento Podcast with Thirza Schaap of CX Unraveled via our customer contact podcast page.
